Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha: Pakistani army is a feudal institution
A full General is worth Rs 500 million+
Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha is a scholar of Pakistan's military and security affairs and a regular contributor to several Pakistani and internationally renowned opinion journals. Currently she is a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, DC where she is busy writing her latest book "Military Inc, The Politics of Military's Economy in Pakistan". In it, she analyzes Pakistan military's vast commercial interests and its economic predation since 1953.
Ayesha Siddiqa also writes on Pakistan's military affairs for Jane’s Information Group. She was asked to work as the Director of Naval Research with the Navy making her the first civilian and woman to work at that position in the Pakistan defense establishment. She has a doctorate in War Studies from King's College, London in 1996.
irshadsalim28: You mean Pak army's side economy?
asidd66: Yes. This includes real estate, businesses done by subsidiaries, organizations and individuals. You have to understand that this economy is predatory by nature because it does not accept any form of civilian control over it. It is independent in terms of planning, appropriation of funds, etc.
irshadsalim28: If Pak army's assets total Rs 1 trillion can they fund Pakistan's annual budget wholly or partially if they have to?
asidd66: This would, converting these resources into liquid assets and then it would be possible to pay. A lot of these resources are state resources that could provide for military expenditure and more. It is difficult to say that this money would fund the entire budget. Of course, it can but over what period? These assets were acquired over time and their value should be added to the annual defense budget.
irshadsalim28: What was the defense budget for the year 2001?
asidd66: 131 billion. If u add these numbers the budget would escalate to over Rs. 400 billion
irshadsalim28: When u left in 2001 how many generals, etc were there who form the command structure of Pak forces?
asidd66: Brigadier and up would be a few hundred.
irshadsalim28: So if we assume 100 then 100 times 300 million = 30 billion is the legal worth of army's command structure correct?
asidd66: it is more but don't get into these fancy numbers.. plus the higher you go the more pricy you become. A full general is worth Rs 500 million plus
irshadsalim28: Have you in the process of writing your book researched the worth of those generals who "wrote history" of Pakistan
asidd66: Which ones are you referring to?
irshadsalim28: Ayub, Yayha, Zia, Musa, Tikka, et al
asidd66: I do not intend writing a sensational thriller
irshadsalim28: How much land does the forces own in each province?
asidd66: Difficult to bifurcate but to give you a taste - they own about 7-9 million acres in Punjab alone
irshadsalim28: What percentage is it of whole of Punjab?
asidd66: I am still trying to figure this out. It is not an issue of what percentage is this of Punjab but that a major portion of state land is appropriated by one group
irshadsalim28: What about Sindh?
asidd66: My sense is that it is less in Sindh
irshadsalim28: Why is that?
asidd66: Most of the land is around the 2 barrages constructed after independence. Because they didn't make new barrages.
irshadsalim28: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotment
asidd66: 10 % of land, according to the colonization of land Act 1912, is allotted to the military
irshadsalim28: 10% everywhere?
asidd66: Yes it would be everywhere land is found. Colonization of land refers to each land reclaimed due to creation of water channels and other irrigation projects. However, they tend to get more in Punjab
irshadsalim28: Does India have this act too?
asidd66: No. They got rid of such acts when they did land reforms. Remember India is a state moving towards capitalism. A capitalist state would not create means for institutionalizing feudalism
irshadsalim28: Are you saying Pak army has institutionalized feudalism?
asidd66: I am saying that it is a feudal institution as well
irshadsalim28: So in that case their interests converge with feudal system correct?
asidd66: Yes
irshadsalim28: Do u think they resisted land reform along with the feudal?
asidd66: I wouldn't say that they resisted but they had sufficient stakes not to pursue a policy that had a negative impact on their benefits. For example, who buys the land the Faujis sell? The local feudal or the new rural capitalist class that is equally feudal in nature. Why should the officers then try to destroy the class that bails them out financially. After 1999, generals have started to keep their lands
irshadsalim28: What happened after 1999
asidd66: Since the value of land has gone up, especially after 9/11, generals now keep lands and have turned into absentee land lords
irshadsalim28: Why did the value of land in Pak go up after 9/11
asidd66: Because of the money that started to flow in from Pakistani expats plus other Muslim countries
irshadsalim28: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotted to generals individually and to their housing societies collectively?
asidd66: The provincial governments allot the land to the Ministry of Defense who then gives the land to the three services for further dispersal. The land is also given to the Jawans but the quantity is lesser than what is given to the senior officers. Plus, the generals get greater facilities in making the land cultivable.
irshadsalim28: All this is based on 1912 colonization of land act that India got rid of and Pak still has?
asidd66: Yes, but they have done alterations as well. For instance, the act does not say that land meant for operational purpose be appropriated for personal use. It is against the law
irshadsalim28: Are you saying that land meant for operational purposes are or have been appropriated to the generals for personal use or to the housing societies?
asidd66: Of course. All land in the cities is military land turned into housing colonies
irshadsalim28: Why did u resign?
asidd66: I thought I could do much more with my time by writing and joining academia. Had gone on secondment from the civil service. Refused to take uniform.
irshadsalim28: Were you forced to resign or ever asked to resign due to your findings, etc?
asidd66: I wasn't forced but things were looking unpleasant when I left. There was a lot of arm twisting and it was getting unpleasant
irshadsalim28: Is it true that you were one of the whistle blowers who started to bring to light financial dealings in the forces?
asidd66: I am not sure if that is the right term but i was trying my best to put things in perspective such as analyzing and opposing weapons procurement deals that would not benefit the navy.
irshadsalim28: Is it true that more than once you had unpleasant analytical discussions with your superiors in such matters that led to arm twisting, etc
asidd66: We often had unpleasant discussions and arm twisting as well
irshadsalim28: What is the conclusion of your book?
asidd66: Simple: The political leadership in Pakistan has to negotiate the military's gradual withdrawal from the economy if they want democratic institutions to grow
Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha is a scholar of Pakistan's military and security affairs and a regular contributor to several Pakistani and internationally renowned opinion journals. Currently she is a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, DC where she is busy writing her latest book "Military Inc, The Politics of Military's Economy in Pakistan". In it, she analyzes Pakistan military's vast commercial interests and its economic predation since 1953.
Ayesha Siddiqa also writes on Pakistan's military affairs for Jane’s Information Group. She was asked to work as the Director of Naval Research with the Navy making her the first civilian and woman to work at that position in the Pakistan defense establishment. She has a doctorate in War Studies from King's College, London in 1996.
irshadsalim28: You mean Pak army's side economy?
asidd66: Yes. This includes real estate, businesses done by subsidiaries, organizations and individuals. You have to understand that this economy is predatory by nature because it does not accept any form of civilian control over it. It is independent in terms of planning, appropriation of funds, etc.
irshadsalim28: If Pak army's assets total Rs 1 trillion can they fund Pakistan's annual budget wholly or partially if they have to?
asidd66: This would, converting these resources into liquid assets and then it would be possible to pay. A lot of these resources are state resources that could provide for military expenditure and more. It is difficult to say that this money would fund the entire budget. Of course, it can but over what period? These assets were acquired over time and their value should be added to the annual defense budget.
irshadsalim28: What was the defense budget for the year 2001?
asidd66: 131 billion. If u add these numbers the budget would escalate to over Rs. 400 billion
irshadsalim28: When u left in 2001 how many generals, etc were there who form the command structure of Pak forces?
asidd66: Brigadier and up would be a few hundred.
irshadsalim28: So if we assume 100 then 100 times 300 million = 30 billion is the legal worth of army's command structure correct?
asidd66: it is more but don't get into these fancy numbers.. plus the higher you go the more pricy you become. A full general is worth Rs 500 million plus
irshadsalim28: Have you in the process of writing your book researched the worth of those generals who "wrote history" of Pakistan
asidd66: Which ones are you referring to?
irshadsalim28: Ayub, Yayha, Zia, Musa, Tikka, et al
asidd66: I do not intend writing a sensational thriller
irshadsalim28: How much land does the forces own in each province?
asidd66: Difficult to bifurcate but to give you a taste - they own about 7-9 million acres in Punjab alone
irshadsalim28: What percentage is it of whole of Punjab?
asidd66: I am still trying to figure this out. It is not an issue of what percentage is this of Punjab but that a major portion of state land is appropriated by one group
irshadsalim28: What about Sindh?
asidd66: My sense is that it is less in Sindh
irshadsalim28: Why is that?
asidd66: Most of the land is around the 2 barrages constructed after independence. Because they didn't make new barrages.
irshadsalim28: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotment
asidd66: 10 % of land, according to the colonization of land Act 1912, is allotted to the military
irshadsalim28: 10% everywhere?
asidd66: Yes it would be everywhere land is found. Colonization of land refers to each land reclaimed due to creation of water channels and other irrigation projects. However, they tend to get more in Punjab
irshadsalim28: Does India have this act too?
asidd66: No. They got rid of such acts when they did land reforms. Remember India is a state moving towards capitalism. A capitalist state would not create means for institutionalizing feudalism
irshadsalim28: Are you saying Pak army has institutionalized feudalism?
asidd66: I am saying that it is a feudal institution as well
irshadsalim28: So in that case their interests converge with feudal system correct?
asidd66: Yes
irshadsalim28: Do u think they resisted land reform along with the feudal?
asidd66: I wouldn't say that they resisted but they had sufficient stakes not to pursue a policy that had a negative impact on their benefits. For example, who buys the land the Faujis sell? The local feudal or the new rural capitalist class that is equally feudal in nature. Why should the officers then try to destroy the class that bails them out financially. After 1999, generals have started to keep their lands
irshadsalim28: What happened after 1999
asidd66: Since the value of land has gone up, especially after 9/11, generals now keep lands and have turned into absentee land lords
irshadsalim28: Why did the value of land in Pak go up after 9/11
asidd66: Because of the money that started to flow in from Pakistani expats plus other Muslim countries
irshadsalim28: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotted to generals individually and to their housing societies collectively?
asidd66: The provincial governments allot the land to the Ministry of Defense who then gives the land to the three services for further dispersal. The land is also given to the Jawans but the quantity is lesser than what is given to the senior officers. Plus, the generals get greater facilities in making the land cultivable.
irshadsalim28: All this is based on 1912 colonization of land act that India got rid of and Pak still has?
asidd66: Yes, but they have done alterations as well. For instance, the act does not say that land meant for operational purpose be appropriated for personal use. It is against the law
irshadsalim28: Are you saying that land meant for operational purposes are or have been appropriated to the generals for personal use or to the housing societies?
asidd66: Of course. All land in the cities is military land turned into housing colonies
irshadsalim28: Why did u resign?
asidd66: I thought I could do much more with my time by writing and joining academia. Had gone on secondment from the civil service. Refused to take uniform.
irshadsalim28: Were you forced to resign or ever asked to resign due to your findings, etc?
asidd66: I wasn't forced but things were looking unpleasant when I left. There was a lot of arm twisting and it was getting unpleasant
irshadsalim28: Is it true that you were one of the whistle blowers who started to bring to light financial dealings in the forces?
asidd66: I am not sure if that is the right term but i was trying my best to put things in perspective such as analyzing and opposing weapons procurement deals that would not benefit the navy.
irshadsalim28: Is it true that more than once you had unpleasant analytical discussions with your superiors in such matters that led to arm twisting, etc
asidd66: We often had unpleasant discussions and arm twisting as well
irshadsalim28: What is the conclusion of your book?
asidd66: Simple: The political leadership in Pakistan has to negotiate the military's gradual withdrawal from the economy if they want democratic institutions to grow
posted by India News Watch at 1:29 PM
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